Randy Lee Patrick: Dead at 18

 

Randy Lee Patrick was 18 years old and an accomplished diver when he lost his life in the depths of Pickwick Lake. For those who have asked why, there have never been any satisfactory answers.

It was only three days into Summer on Tuesday, June 23, 1992, that Patrick and two friends boarded a small boat and made their way to the southern tip of Seven Mile Island. Once there, all three dove into the 15 foot deep water, ostensibly looking for mussels. At around 1:00 p.m., Patrick signaled to his two companions that he was surfacing. According to witnesses in the area, Randy Patrick was approximately 30 feet from the boat when he reached the surface. When the remaining two divers surfaced a short time later, Patrick was not to be found. It was approximately two hours later that the two men sounded the alarm.

Both Colbert and Lauderdale rescue squads began a search that lasted into the darkness, but no sign of the teen diver was found. The search continued on Wednesday as a rescue dog was brought in from Mississippi. It was early on Thursday morning that responders found Patrick's body on the Lauderdale side of the river, still wearing his diving gear and oxygen tank. Colbert's lay coroner Joe Morrison ruled the death accidental.

It wasn't until approximately four weeks later that Randy Patrick's two companions were publicly identified: Former Cherokee police chief Jeffery D. Wilemon and Alabama State Trooper Phillip James Pettus. Neither man was willing to provide the TimesDaily with a statement at that time.

However, Randy's father, brother, and sister did make public statements concerning his drowning. Michael Patrick related that his brother had died on the third anniversary of receiving his diver certification. He also related that Randy had told him he had become afraid to dive, but failed to offer a rationale. Patrick's father Thurman added that his son was always extremely careful; his sister Connie Cottingham related that Patrick had found a civil war era gun in the channel and that the June dive involved more than harvesting mussels.

While the family handed out flyers asking for any witnesses to the events of June 23rd to come forward and retained Florence attorney Bob Hill to represent them, the Alabama Marine Police firmly held to the position that all credible witnesses had been interviewed and the investigation was closed. It has now been three decades since the death of Randy Lee Patrick. The public may never know the exact events of that early Summer day...but God does.


Note: The value of Civil War guns varies depending on condition. A Gatling gun in good condition sold for $93,000.00 in 2019.

Stanford Lakey: Wrongly Convicted of Murder?

 

Did the murderer of Tommie Fields Lakey walk free, while her husband took the fall? After 72 years, that question may never be answered.

Stanford M. Lakey was born in Panola County, Mississippi, in 1908. Until the United States entered World War II, Lakey's existence had hardly been extraordinary. After the war, Stan returned home looking for a better life, a quest that led the machinist to a job with the Tennessee Valley Authority, a home in Sheffield, and a wife to whom he was totally unsuited.

After his move to Sheffield, the single Lakey met Tommie Fields, a nurse ten years his junior who managed the office of Dr. D.D. Cox. Tommie was reportedly a large woman who, like Stan, enjoyed the effects of alcohol a little too much. By February 1951, Stan and Tommie had been married just over a year, but the union had already turned sour, with Stan often heard to say he could easily kill Tommie if given half a chance.

The Lakeys lived in a garage apartment on the corner of 30th Street and 14th Avenue. While their digs were small, it wasn't unusual for the couple to entertain on weekends, and it was during one of their usual parties that Tommie Lakey met her death on February 11th.

The party had started early that Sunday, but the guests who came and went all stated the alcohol infused gathering had ended by 4:00 or 4:30 that afternoon. It was slightly later that Stan awoke in the living room and found Tommie lying on their bed. When he couldn't awaken her, he called a neighbor for assistance. When J. P. McLemore arrived, he realized that Tommie Lakey was past help.

The coroner arrived and pronounced Tommie deceased before leaving around 8:00 p.m. By 8:30, Sheffield Police had arrested Stanford Lakey for First Degree Murder. Was the case against the TVA machinist that open and closed?

Stan Lakey's attorney advised him to plead not guilty due to mental defect. Stan had little or no memory of what had happened that afternoon, and at the April indictment, he followed his legal counsel's advice. The trial was held in late June and offered no dramatic revelations.

Stan's family from Mississippi testified that he had always been moody. His supervisor from the TVA Phosphate Plant was subpoenaed, but ultimately neither the prosecution nor defense chose to present his superior's character assessment that, while quirky, Lakey didn't seem like someone who was capable of murder.

Meanwhile, the press offered scant coverage of the crime. Many theorized that D.D. Cox, the physician for the Sheffield High football team, had asked to keep the information about his employee's last hours to a minimum. As the trial progressed, testimony presented a picture of a brutal murder in which Tommie Lakey had been beaten and stomped, finally bleeding out from a perforated liver.

Blood patterns indicated that Tommie was killed at the bottom of the stairs leading to the apartment and then carried to the second floor where the couple lived. While Stan's defense attorney chose not to pursue any problems with that scenario, many felt that a man as diminutive as Lakey could not have carried a woman of Tommie's size up the stairs and into their apartment. Was Stanford Lakey really innocent of murdering his wife?

It took a jury just over one hour to find Lakey guilty of the crime of First Degree Murder. Stan's defense attorney appealed, but it was ultimately parole that set the machinist free. He died at the age of 65 in 1974, never having proved his innocence, and is buried in Water Valley, Mississippi. Tommie Fields Lakey lies buried in a family plot in Gurley in Madison County, Alabama.

The Walnut Street Widow

 

Elizabeth Kerr Flanagan Loving, the daughter of Otto and Audrey Pearl Hendon Kerr, began her life at 438 North Walnut Street when the now historic home was only a year old. While she lived in Huntsville during her first marriage, the Florence residence had long been home to the 71 year-old Loving when she left it to take up digs in a local behavioral health unit in April 1995. It was still a kinder departure than that of her husband Ernest Norman Loving, who left in a body bag ultimately to be buried in a Selma cemetery. 

After the death of Audrey Kerr in 1990, Elizabeth and her second husband were left alone in the aging Walnut Street residence. Loving, known as Ernie, was only 43 at his death, but those who knew him called him a raging alcoholic who had been in rehab at least 15 times and looked much older than his actual age. He was not only physically abusive to his wife, but also a regular with the AA crowd and, according to Elizabeth, was having an affair with a woman whom he had met while attending Alcoholics Anonymous. 

Ernie Loving's alcoholism also caused the couple financial problems. He owned an electronics business in Sheffield, but often worked little and failed to collect from clients who owed him. In short, Elizabeth wasn't content in her marriage, and January 1995 saw the union come to a violent end. 

Due to Ernie being often absent from the home, he was ostensibly worried about his wife's well-being while alone. Elizabeth claimed that he encouraged her to visit Shootin' Irons Emporium in downtown Florence where she purchased a .380 calibre handgun. 

According to Elizabeth's trial testimony, the couple's problems came to a head on the night of January 31st. Soon after, neighbors realized they hadn't seen Ernie in several days, and his work truck remained in the same location in the driveway of the Walnut Street home. When asked, Elizabeth cracked jokes about her husband's whereabouts. Some observers even theorized that Ernie had been offed and buried under the new front walkway. Yes, it seems Elizabeth was making a lot of improvements to her childhood home now that she was living alone. Yet for all the improvements, Mrs. Loving made none to the back bedroom of the old home.

It was on April 4th that Elizabeth asked her hair stylist and his partner to dinner. She must have fully trusted the two men, but thankfully her dinner guests chose not to become involved in her machinations. At some point, the guests were directed to the back bedroom where to their horror they found the almost mummified body of Ernest Loving lying in a fetal position. Elizabeth suggested that she needed their help in order to dispose of the remains properly. 

In early 1995, few owned a bulky mobile phone, but one of Elizabeth's guests managed to run next door to call police. When the authorities arrived, they found not only the decayed body of Ernest Loving, but Elizabeth with a gunshot wound to her abdomen. She was taken to Eliza Coffee Memorial Hospital where she recovered. Loving was later transferred to the hospital's behavioral health unit and then to Bryce Hospital in Tuscaloosa where she underwent extensive psychiatric testing.

During the five months in hospital in Tuscaloosa, Loving suffered a stroke; however, she was later judged both mentally and physically competent to stand trial. Ralph Holt represented Loving at the October trial where she changed her plea from not guilty by reason of mental defect to self-defense. Elizabeth stated that Ernie had come home drunk and demanded a divorce. Further, he hit her several times, while she begged him not to hurt her. She then shot her husband several times with the exact number being unknown to her.

A jury found Elizabeth Loving guilty of Felony Murder and sentenced her to 30 years in the state prison system; however, her troubles were far from over. Ernie Loving had two daughters from a previous relationship who sued Loving for the wrongful death of their father. After Loving lost the case, she was forced to sell both the Sheffield electronics business and the childhood home she had fought so hard to save.

As is usually the case, Elizabeth Kerr Loving didn't spend 30 years in prison for murdering her profligate husband. She was released early and, if public records are correct, today lives in Birmingham at the age of 99.

Gerald Winston Surratt Jr. - Crime, Punishment, & Parole - 2023 Update

Gerald Winston Surratt Jr. came from what most in the Shoals would call a privileged environment, yet his early life was far from perfect. Surratt’s father had substance abuse problems and wasn’t always there for the young man who called himself Gerry or Jerry. When the younger Surratt was 18, his father died. Two years later, Gerry was arrested in Lauderdale County on charges of Drug Possession, Breaking and Entering a Vehicle, and Burglary.

Between the years 2006 and 2019, Surratt was arrested at least 31 times. Most of these arrests were related to either drugs or theft, but some were more sinister. His 2006 arrest at the age of 20 garnered the young Florence man a sentence of 10 years, indicating he already had a juvenile record.

During Surratt’s stay in an Alabama Department of Corrections facility, he was denied parole. Gerry also lost correctional incentive time due to bad behavior and lacked two weeks serving five years on a sentence he could have completed in 40 months. Finally released in August 2011, the now 26 year-old Surratt returned to Florence and began work for Hensley Properties, a company founded by his great-uncle.

Shortly after his return to the Shoals, Surratt also acquired a live-in girlfriend. This unfortunate young woman later stated that the longer she knew Surratt, the more she feared him.

In March 2012, a young woman was kidnapped from the UNA parking garage and forced to take her armed abductor to the Bank Independent ATM on Pine Street. There the kidnapper had his victim withdraw the maximum amount allowed; together with what cash the young woman had in her billfold, the kidnapper netted just under $600.00. He then had his victim return to the parking deck where a nearby male student became suspicious of the situation. The kidnapper ran when confronted and has never been officially identified.

An artist’s sketch greatly resembled Surratt, who was also questioned about an armed North Florence home invasion from earlier the same day. Unfortunately, the UNA victim was unable to identify her attacker with 100% certainty. She reportedly left the university a short time after her ordeal, and the case remains officially unsolved.

Yet Surratt’s girlfriend and others were convinced that Gerry was the wanted felon. The romantic relationship soured shortly thereafter, and Surratt began to date a young woman who resided in Sheffield.

In May 2012, Surratt was visiting his new girlfriend in her apartment where both consumed alcohol. When a second woman who lived in the apartment arrived, she was concerned, later telling police that she didn’t like Surratt. The roommate retired to her bedroom and locked the door.

According to the roommate, approximately two hours later, she awoke to find Surratt in her bed, fondling her sexually and kissing her neck. The terrified young woman managed to escape and call both her boyfriend and Sheffield Police. Surratt was arrested on charges of First Degree Sexual Abuse; however, an August 2012 Colbert County grand jury failed to indict Gerry.

Many asked at the time how Surratt could have entered the roommate’s locked bedroom? It may have been simple; friends of Surratt told stories of the Hensley Properties maintenance man having several master keys that fit many locks, not just the ones in the apartment complexes owned by Hensley Properties. After all, Gerald Surratt Jr. was nothing if not an accomplished burglar.

Surratt continued to live in Polynesian Village Apartments and work for his late uncle’s company; however, authorities say Gerry augmented his income by the occasional home or car burglary. After a long string of arrests that Surratt was always able to wrangle out of, his deviant sexual proclivities again landed him in jail. The then 30 year-old sometime maintenance man contacted at least two young teenage girls on Facebook, sending them live feeds of him masturbating.

One Place of the Shoals pieced together a case against Surratt, having him arrested in July 2016 on a charge of Electronic Transmission of Obscene Material. It would be a year before Gerry was indicted on the lesser charge of Indecent Exposure. Ultimately, Surratt again managed to avoid any real punishment for his crimes against an innocent young woman.

During this time frame, Surratt boasted that he was above the law. His family had money to pay for the best defense, and his second cousin Benjamin Graves was now a sitting Lauderdale County Circuit Court judge. While Graves was indeed Billy Hensley’s grandson, it’s doubtful that Surratt actually found this connection helpful. A good defense attorney and crowded state prisons were more likely reasons for Gerry’s continued freedom.

Perhaps emboldened by this lack of punishment, Surratt continued to exhibit anti-social tendencies against women. After several complaints, the University of North Alabama Police banned Gerry from the campus in May 2018. The university wasn’t the only entity to ban Surratt. The social pariah was also banished from Walmart Stores where he ostensibly made a second career of shoplifting electronics and other items to peddle on his Facebook page.

In November 2018, Florence Police announced that Gerald Surratt was a suspect in a rash of burglaries at and near Florence Mall. Authorities say Gerry broke into numerous residences, as well as retail establishments including Castner-Knott Beauty Shop.

It didn’t take long to apprehend Surratt, who was already on probation in several cases. Perhaps Gerry’s family saw the futility of continuing to assist him, especially since his younger brother Corey Taft Surratt had also now taken up the mantle of armed robber. Nevertheless, Gerry posted bond, but was soon re-arrested with the added charge of escape/absconding.

Gerry Surratt was convicted in Lauderdale County in August 2019 on a charge of Burglary. The court took Surratt’s record into consideration and ultimately sentenced the career felon to 15 years. He’s currently serving his time in the William E. Donaldson Correctional Facility, a maximum security prison.

According to Department of Corrections records, Surratt has not been a model prisoner. He currently has lost six months of correctional incentive time due to his behavior and is being held in “Close Custody,” the most secure status outside of solitary confinement or death row.

Gerry Surratt will end his sentence on November 19, 2023; however, he will be eligible for parole consideration on June 1, 2021. With his current record, it’s extremely doubtful that Surratt will even come close to making parole, but with the right attorney, it’s not to be ruled out.

If you have been a victim of Gerald Surratt, you may write a protest letter to the parole board here:


Alabama Board of Pardons & Paroles
Re: Gerald Winston Surratt Jr., AIS# 259912
100 Capitol Commerce Boulevard - Suite 310
Montgomery, AL 36117

Gerald Winston Surratt Jr. was denied parole; however, that didn't stop his ultimate release. Under a mandatory early release program enacted in 2015, Gerry was released nearly a year before the end of his sentence.

The mandatory early release program is highly supervised, and Surratt lasted only a few months before violating the terms of his parole. He was taken into state custody in early December 2022 and remains awaiting transfer back to the state prison system as of February 2023. His new end of sentence date is February 19, 2024.

As news of his parole failure became known, one young local woman commented: 

I worked with Gerry like 12 years ago at Demos. I hadn't seen him in years and I got a video call from him on FB last year. My dumb a** answered it and it was him, in prison, playing with himself... Needless to say I never answer video calls anymore...

Corey Seahorn: Kidnapper & Child Pornographer

 

Corey Mack Seahorn was born in 1977 in Colbert County, Alabama. Friends say that as one of four children, Seahorn led a relatively normal life growing up in a home where he lacked for little. As he grew older, he made no secret of his homosexuality and as an adult entered into an undocumented marriage with a male partner in Louisiana.

After that relationship broke up, Seahorn returned to Alabama. He quickly set himself up as a legally ordained minister, but he didn't stop there. He also advertised himself as a medical doctor and a psychologist, despite having no degrees to back up his claims. Then things turned very strange indeed.

While reportedly under the influence of alcohol, Seahorn and a friend from Moulton kidnapped a young man at gunpoint from a Littleville convenience store. Corey had met the teen the previous year and was seeking to force him into a marriage. After sobering up, Seahorn returned the then 16 year-old boy to the Colbert County Sheriff''s office and was promptly arrested.

From an April 2019 news account:

Almost three years ago, Corey Mack Seahorn and an accomplice kidnapped a young man in Littleville. Now, the fake doctor/psychologist has been arrested on over 75 counts of possession of child pornography.

Seahorn is originally from Franklin County, but had lived out of state for several years when he returned to the area ostensibly married to a male. Whatever the relationship was, it was short-lived, and Seahorn soon found himself single and in love again.

This time Seahorn's beloved was a 15 year old male, a boy whose mother had also had a relationship with Seahorn. The self-proclaimed physician/psychologist soon found himself spurned and arranged to kidnap the young man, by then 16, in order to establish their romance.

According to Seahorn, he and a friend had been drinking when they came up with the plan to abduct the youth from a Littleville mini-mart. When Seahorn sobered up, he called the Colbert County sheriff's office to ask if he were in any serious trouble. Told that he was in the clear, Seahorn returned the boy to the authorities and was immediately arrested.

During the initial investigation, it came to light that Seahorn was posing as both someone with a medical doctorate and a PhD in psychology. He was reported to the appropriate boards, but without anyone to press charges, nothing was done about his ruse.

Now Corey Mack Seahorn, 41, has been arrested in Lauderdale on charges of both possession and production of child pornography. He was reported by the mother of a young boy whom he was ostensibly grooming for a sexual relationship. He remains in the Lauderdale County Detention Center at this time. 

Seahorn never made it to court on either his Colbert County kidnapping charge or his Lauderdale child pornography charges. From a second April 2019 news report:

An accused child pornographer has died while being held in solitary confinement in the Lauderdale County Detention Center. Authorities say Corey Mack Seahorn of Franklin County was found unreponsive in his single bed cell early on Sunday morning. His death is believed to be from natural causes, but an autopsy will be conducted for conclusive findings.

Seahorn made Shoals headlines three years ago when he kidnapped a teenage boy from Colbert County. At the time of his arrest on over 75 child pornography charges in Lauderdale, the 41 year old Seahorn had not been tried on the kidnapping charge. He was being held on over 400K bond.

On April 7, 2019, Corey Mack Seahorn was declared dead in his cell in the Lauderdale County Detention Center. At the time, Lauderdale County Sheriff Rick Singleton stated that Seahorn had multiple health problems, and his demise was ruled from natural causes.

Seahorn's family buried him in the Bethlehem Cemetery in the Mountain Star Community in Franklin County. His published obituary received two comments of condolence. The public is now left to ponder the unknown fate of his kidnap victim and the children he involved in his pornographic image collection.

Bobby Joe Speegle: Sold His Daughter into Sexual Slavery

 

We hear the term "human trafficking" almost every day in the news. What does it really signify? It can mean either forcing someone into providing labor or sexual favors. Often it's the victim's own family members who commit these crimes. This is the case of Bobby Joe Speegle who sold his teenage daughter into sexual slavery.

Bobby Joe, one of four children, was born into a Tuscumbia family during the nation's bicentennial. That may sound like an auspicious start in life, but in reality Bobby's parents soon divorced, and he and at least one of his brothers often ran afoul of the law.

In 2012, Speegle was living in a small camper at Muscle Shoals Trailer Park on Wilson Dam Road. He was reportedly well known to his neighbors who suspected the then 36 year-old park resident of dealing in meth. When several residents heard an explosion one Saturday afternoon in early June, they immediately thought of Bobby Joe and his impromptu meth cooks.

Several calls to authorities soon brought numerous law enforcement personnel to the scene. There they found Speegle attempting to clean the soot and ammonium nitrate debris from his living quarters as a second man ran into a wooded area behind the trailer park. While the police were still taking in the scene, Bobby Joe's girlfriend arrived and soon admitted she had purchased the pseudoephedrine needed to concoct the meth. While the second man eluded officers, they did find evidence of a one-pot cook and receipts for chemicals that he had hidden in the thick vegetation.

Bobby Joe Speegle was now in a lot of trouble. Muscle Shoals authorities found that Speegle had a warrant in that city for failing to appear in municipal court. He spent the rest of the weekend in the town's small jail before being transferred to the county's facilities where he was charged with his drug crimes. 

After spending five months in the Colbert County Jail, Speegle was convicted of the crime of manufacturing methamphetamine. A judge sentenced the hapless meth maven to 18 months in the state prison system, and Bobby Joe was soon on his way to Kilby Correctional Facility in Montgomery. He remained in the correctional system until December 1, 2013.

Once home, Speegle made little to no attempt to stay away from drugs, despite having a young daughter. Indeed, Speegle was destined to become a parent who brought unimaginable evil upon his child.

In November 2018, Bobby Joe Speegle was again living in Muscle Shoals, again heavily into drugs, and again broke. Then he met a 32 year-old Sheffield drug dealer who was willing to talk trade. What did this enterprising street pharmacist want in exchange for his wares? Bobby Joe's 17 year-old daughter.

Authorities say that on November 14th, Speegle provided the young teen with a drugged drink. He is alleged to have then taken her to the Sheffield home of his drug dealer. The teen's next memory is waking up to the brutal realization that she was in a strange home being raped. 

After managing to escape, the teenager submitted to a sexual assault examination in a local hospital. A Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner was familiar with the custom of tattooing sex traffic victims and checked the victim specifically for this type of marking.

Black light tattoos show up when the light is projected onto the tattooed area. Below is an example of a hand tattooed with black light ink:

The SANE was shocked to find that the young teen's inner thigh had been marked with an inscription describing her as the property of the drug dealer. 

Authorities now arrested Bobby Joe Speegle on charges of Promoting Prostitution and Providing False Information to Law Enforcement. Due to the nature of his crime, Speegle was initially held in the Morgan County Jail for his own safety. He ultimately pleaded guilty to the charge of Promoting Prostitution and was sentenced in March 2022 to ten years in the state prison system.

Speegle is currently in the Limestone Correctional Facility with a release date of 10/17/24, Upon his release, he will be required to register as a Sex Offender. Will he then return to the Shoals? Since Bobby Joe has both immediate and extended family in the area, it's indeed likely that he will. 

The public will be watching...

The Fountain Lanes Murder

 

The Crime:

Bowling has always been considered a blue collar sport, but when Fountain Lanes was built in the late 1950s on the recently opened Florence Boulevard, it sought a new type of clientele. These new lanes were to attract young families, upscale professionals, and even Girl Scouts earning merit badges. Yet it didn't take long for the sports venue to show a much darker side.

It was the second day of the new year 1962 when Travis L. Pounders and a friend decided to visit the bowling alley. Pounders was married, the owner of a new home on Tune Avenue, and the chief traffic clerk at Southern Railway in Sheffield. In short, the 33 year-old Pounders appeared to be an upstanding citizen.

While Pounders and his companion bowled, four Florence youths ranging in age from 18 to 23 entered the alley. Lauderdale prosecutors later referred to the Weeden Heights boys as "thugs" and "hoods." 

At some point during that Tuesday evening, Pounders and his friend retired to the men's room where they were alleged to have been drinking alcohol from paper cups. It was in the restroom that 23 year-old Jerry Rogers heard Pounders make a derogatory remark about his leather jacket. Rogers later told his friends that the older men had threatened to "whip him," but this was never substantiated.

Shortly after the restroom incident, both groups left Fountain Lanes only seconds apart. It was then that Rogers decided to confront the two older men, hitting Pounders in the mouth and knocking him against Carver May. The 20 year-old May then struck Pounders on the head, but the victim seemed unfazed and lunged at Rogers. At that point, Rogers produced a large pocket knife and fatally stabbed Pounders in the heart, nicking the left lung. All four of the Weeden Heights youths fled the scene.

Fountain Lanes management placed a call to authorities at 10:16. A nearby ambulance transported Pounders to the ECM emergency department where he was pronounced dead shortly before 10:30 p.m. The Florence Police Department then initiated a search for the four young men.

The Aftermath:

It took only hours to arrest the four Weeden Heights youths; all were charged two days later with First Degree Murder (now Capital Murder) and faced a possible death penalty. Ultimately charges against two of the young men (names intentionally omitted) were dramatically reduced.

Only Jerry Rogers and Carver May were convicted of Manslaughter. May contended the blow he delivered to the back of Travis Pounders' head was inconsequential. His defense attempted to prove the bruise on the back of the victim's head could have been caused by his final fall to the pavement after being stabbed. Carver May was convicted and sentenced to six years in the state prison system.

The case against Jerry Rogers was much more complex. At 23, he was the oldest of the group. Unemployed, he had a reputation of liking to "cut" people. While Rogers had attempted to destroy the murder weapon, detectives found him in possession of a second knife covered in opossum's blood; seemingly Jerry was a threat to more than humans. In the past five years, he had been arrested twice for knife assault, but never served any substantial time. Jerry Rogers was sentenced to 90 years behind bars.

Sixty years later, do patrons of Fountain Lanes (now called Lauderdale Lanes) realize they step atop the scene of a murder each time they enter or depart the establishment? Perhaps in today's society, it's more of a question of do they even care.